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BrianSune_Froum's avatar
BrianSune_Froum
Icon for Contributor rankContributor
7 months ago
Solved

Custom board on Cyclone V SoC HPS SDRAM topology unclear

Dear Intel and All,

This is Brian, I am working on a C5 SoC project.
According to document "emi_plan-683385-666390.pdf"

"Leveling circuitry is dedicated I/O circuitry to provide calibration support for fly-by
address and command networks. For DDR3, leveling is always invoked, whether the
interface targets a DIMM or a single component. For DDR3 implementations at higher
frequencies, a fly-by topology is recommended for optimal performance. For DDR2,
leveling circuitry is invoked automatically for frequencies above 240 MHz; no leveling
is used for frequencies below 240 MHz.
For DDR2 at frequencies below 240 MHz, you should use a tree-style layout. For
frequencies above 240 MHz, you can choose either a leveled or balanced-T or Y
topology, as the leveled PHY calibrates to either implementation. Regardless of
protocol, for devices without a levelling block—such as Arria II GZ, Arria V, and
Cyclone V—a balanced-T PCB topology for address/command/clock must be used
because fly-by topology is not supported.
For details about leveling delay chains, consult"

This is making me very puzzling about do DDR3 Fly-by is allowed or not?

  • Hi Brian,


    "So simply said HPS hard EMI also this rules?"

    • Yes the HPS EMIF IP also same.


    "So basically the entire cyclone V family do not allow fly-by topology as leveling is not included?"

    • Yes, it's not supporting DDR3 SDRAM fly-by topology


    "DDR3 speed is above 300MHz so do this also applying the same leveling constraints "ON HPS hard EMI"? "

    • Yes


    Regards,

    Adzim


9 Replies

  • sstrell's avatar
    sstrell
    Icon for Super Contributor rankSuper Contributor

    It's been a while since I've used DDR3, but fly-by is certainly allowed. You specify in the IP Parameter Editor that the memory is organized in such a topology and that enables the automatic leveling based on when signals reach each chip. It's recommended for most implementations but required at 400 MHz and above.

    • BrianSune_Froum's avatar
      BrianSune_Froum
      Icon for Contributor rankContributor

      Maybe allow me to rephase or explain a bit more what i am trying to ask or confirm.

      What i am seeking is a confirmation on HPS hard memory controller that is allow user to design in fly-by topology.
      I am not asking about the external memory controller in PL side.

      If this is align with what you had mentioned please do confirm or provide documents I am willing to read more.

      Thank you

    • BrianSune_Froum's avatar
      BrianSune_Froum
      Icon for Contributor rankContributor

      @AdzimZM_Intel


      Please do confirm the below understanding is aligned.

      " 13. For Arria V, Arria V GZ, Cyclone V, and Stratix V."

      So simply said HPS hard EMI also this rules?


      " 10. & 13."
      So basically the entire cyclone V family do not allow fly-by topology as leveling is not included?

      "10. Leveling is not available for Arria V or Cyclone V devices."
      DDR3 speed is above 300MHz so do this also applying the same leveling constraints "ON HPS hard EMI"?

      Thank you

  • AdzimZM_Altera's avatar
    AdzimZM_Altera
    Icon for Regular Contributor rankRegular Contributor

    Hi Brian,


    "So simply said HPS hard EMI also this rules?"

    • Yes the HPS EMIF IP also same.


    "So basically the entire cyclone V family do not allow fly-by topology as leveling is not included?"

    • Yes, it's not supporting DDR3 SDRAM fly-by topology


    "DDR3 speed is above 300MHz so do this also applying the same leveling constraints "ON HPS hard EMI"? "

    • Yes


    Regards,

    Adzim


    • BrianSune_Froum's avatar
      BrianSune_Froum
      Icon for Contributor rankContributor

      @AdzimZM_Intel

      I am afraid during testing and referencing to Altera inherent design files.

      I am so confused and puzzled why leveling is not allowed but such routing is allowed?

      According to T-Branch layout it is almost defined it must be even # of dies.

      But if the middle join is the ECC it is still understandable but in this route and design it is a fly-by just first node termination.

      This violated all the discussion previously?

      Please do explain.

  • The final result is that even with a fly-by routed topology there are no issue on both 1.5V and 1.35V DDR3 DDR3L.
    The MT41K128M16 /w 1k page size shows no sanity issue on memtest stresapptest on distro.
    UBOOT memory normal test also passed w/o any errors.

    So after short testing we can only assume there are inherent bug on Quartus 18.1? or HPS IP.

    No matter it is /w or /wo the board settings no drop no crash no stuck.

    So the case ends here.