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roeekalinsky's avatar
roeekalinsky
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1 year ago

IOPLL non-dedicated feedback option doesn't work correctly

In Stratix 10 and Agilex, the IOPLL supports an option for using a non-dedicated feedback path when using the normal compensation mode or source-synchronous compensation mode. However, the non-dedicated feedback option doesn't appear to work correctly.

With the non-dedicated feedback option selected, the IOPLL compensation anti-delay as reported in static timing analysis is insanely high, on the order of -30 ns, whereas it should be only a few ns for correct compensation. And consequently, this huge anti-delay causes huge clock skews of a similar magnitude, on the order of 30 ns, between the input clock and the clock generated by the IOPLL.


I'm providing a trivial design example that demonstrates this (see attached). It consists of little more than an IOPLL IP with normal mode and non-dedicated feedback option selected, and otherwise all defaults, plus a handful of registers at the top level to create timing paths to observe in STA. And note that the same design example produces reasonable compensation delays if the IOPLL is configured without the non-dedicated feedback option.

The design example provided is in the form of a Quartus Pro 24.1 project archive. But note that I've also tested older versions of Quartus Pro as far back as 21.3 -- same results.

Intel/Altera support folks, please have a look at the provided example and confirm that you can reproduce what I've reported.

And perhaps firstly can you even confirm, please: Is the non-dedicated feedback option known to work? Is it known to not work? Or am I missing something basic? Because it appears to be plainly broken.

20 Replies

  • Hi @AqidAyman_Intel ,

    I'd like to make sure that I clearly understood your response:

    The internal team acknowledges that this mode doesn't actually work correctly, but they don't intend to fix it? Is that correct?

    Are they simply going to document the fact that it doesn't work?

    Are they going to remove this non-working optional mode from the IP and Quartus tool chain as well as the documentation?

    If I do "request a patch" to satisfy Intel's internal triage processes, will they then fix it just as a point-solution patch for me only? Or will they then fold the fix into the subsequent mainline releases?

    Please clarify.

    Thanks,

    -Roee

  • AqidAyman_Altera's avatar
    AqidAyman_Altera
    Icon for Regular Contributor rankRegular Contributor

    Hi Roee,


    As for the information I received so far, the current plan is to fix this in the upcoming Quartus release, and unfortunately only covers the latest devices which are Agilex 7-M and Agilex 5 devices.



  • AqidAyman_Altera's avatar
    AqidAyman_Altera
    Icon for Regular Contributor rankRegular Contributor

    Hi Roee,


    Yes, based on the information I got so far; the current plan is to fix this issue in the 24.3.1 Pro version.


    Regards,

    Aqid


  • Hi @AqidAyman_Intel ,

    Please clarify about "24.3.1". Normally, a Quartus Pro quarterly release like the upcoming 24.3 would be versioned as 24.3.0. Is there a planned "update 1" for 24.3 sometime after the initial release of 24.3? Is that what you mean? Or what is 24.3.1 exactly and when can we expect it?

    Thanks,

    -Roee

  • AqidAyman_Altera's avatar
    AqidAyman_Altera
    Icon for Regular Contributor rankRegular Contributor

    Hi Roee,


    Based on my input from the internal team, 24.3.1 is the rebranded name for 24.4. However, I did not have the exact date on the release schedule, but it should expect to be released at the end of this year or early next year.


    Regards,

    Aqid


  • AqidAyman_Altera's avatar
    AqidAyman_Altera
    Icon for Regular Contributor rankRegular Contributor

    I’m glad that your question has been addressed, I now transition this thread to community support. If you have a new question, Please login to ‘https://supporttickets.intel.com/s/?language=en_US’, view details of the desire request, and post a feed/response within the next 15 days to allow me to continue to support you. After 15 days, this thread will be transitioned to community support. The community users will be able to help you on your follow-up questions.


    • roeekalinsky's avatar
      roeekalinsky
      Icon for Contributor rankContributor

      @AqidAyman_Intel,

      The issue has not yet been addressed. It has only been scheduled to be addressed. I'd like to leave this thread open please until the issue has actually been addressed, which by your estimate would happen around 2024Q4 - 2025Q1.

      Thanks,

      -Roee