I am looking for example designs or tutorials showing how to communicate two Altera boards using simple protocols. The purpose is to see how the two devices interact by transmitting data back and forth and to check the transmission somehow. I am using two Altera Transceiver Signal Integrity Development Kit, Stratix IV GT (EP4S100G2F40I1) boards. Please help to advice if anyone knows such tutorials and examples. Also, any suggestions are highly appreciated. Thanks.

--- Quote Start --- I am looking for example designs or tutorials showing how to communicate two Altera boards using simple protocols. The purpose is to see how the two devices interact by transmitting data back and forth and to check the transmission somehow. I am using two Altera Transceiver Signal Integrity Development Kit, Stratix IV GT (EP4S100G2F40I1) boards. Please help to advice if anyone knows such tutorials and examples. Also, any suggestions are highly appreciated. --- Quote End --- What are you looking to test? The transceivers? At what data rate? What have you tried so far, eg., do you know how to configure the ALTGX and ALGX_RECONFIG components? What do you have in addition to the GT boards? Do you have break out cables? A synthesizer to provide a common clock between the boards? Cheers, Dave

Many thanks to Dave and please find my answers as following: 1-What are you looking to test? The transceivers? Yes, the main purpose is to to test transceivers, in particular with the Altera PHY IP cores. But besides these, I want to know how to create a design for two boards to communicate one another using some simpler protocol than the PHY IP cores. The data rate can be any not greater than 11.3Gbps 2-What have you tried so far? I have tried to test XCVR with On-chip debugging design examples provided by Altera. Then I created similar designs with Lowlatency and Custom PHY for various data rates using Qsys. However, I would like to have a 10Gbase-r PHY design and I could not create this in Qsys. I don't know if it is possible to create such design by using available components in Qsys. 3-Do you know how to configure the ALTGX and ALGX_RECONFIG components? I have general idea about the ALTGX and ALTGX_RECONFIG but have not ever used these as I want to try designing with Qsys first. 4-What do you have in addition to the GT boards? Do you have break out cables? A synthesizer to provide a common clock between the boards? I have SMA cables for physical connection between the two boards. For a synthesizer to provide the common clock, if you can make this clearer? Thanks.

--- Quote Start --- 1-What are you looking to test? The transceivers? Yes, the main purpose is to to test transceivers, in particular with the Altera PHY IP cores. But besides these, I want to know how to create a design for two boards to communicate one another using some simpler protocol than the PHY IP cores. The data rate can be any not greater than 11.3Gbps --- Quote End --- Unfortunately, there are lots of protocols, and lots of reasons for selecting a specific one. What is your final application? Are you going to be having FPGAs communicating with FPGAs, or do you need to interface with a 10G switch, or a Serial RapidIO switch, or SATA drives, or ... etc etc? --- Quote Start --- 2-What have you tried so far? I have tried to test XCVR with On-chip debugging design examples provided by Altera. Then I created similar designs with Lowlatency and Custom PHY for various data rates using Qsys. However, I would like to have a 10Gbase-r PHY design and I could not create this in Qsys. I don't know if it is possible to create such design by using available components in Qsys. --- Quote End --- What have you managed to test? Have you only tried these in hardware, or have you simulated them in Modelsim? --- Quote Start --- 3-Do you know how to configure the ALTGX and ALGX_RECONFIG components? I have general idea about the ALTGX and ALTGX_RECONFIG but have not ever used these as I want to try designing with Qsys first. --- Quote End --- You're doing things in reverse. Qsys is a convenience for connecting components. For a successful system design, you need to understand how these components work. For that understanding, you should start by configuring an ALTGX, an ALTGX_RECONFIG, create a reset controller, and then get them working in simulation and hardware. Use SignalTap II to trace that the hardware does what the simulation does (it doesn't, but the handbook tells you the difference - the key is being able to see and understand the differences). Since all other components are based on these two components, this will give you a fundamental understanding of how the interfaces work. --- Quote Start --- 4-What do you have in addition to the GT boards? Do you have break out cables? A synthesizer to provide a common clock between the boards? I have SMA cables for physical connection between the two boards. For a synthesizer to provide the common clock, if you can make this clearer? --- Quote End --- If one board uses a 156.25MHz reference that is actually a few kHz high, and the other board uses a reference that is a few kHz low, then one board will send data to the other faster than ideal. The clock-and-data recovery (CDR) in the receiver will track the higher frequency, however, if you use a FIFO to cross clock domains between the recovered clock and the local clock, you will eventually get a FIFO overrun (or underrun in the case of a slower transmitter). Protocols like 10G take care of this by having protocol codes that can be added or deleted. If you are implementing FPGA-to-FPGA communications, then the system becomes simpler if you use a synchronous reference. You can implement this reference using an external synthesizer and send a copy of the signal to each board, or you can use one of your boards as the clock source and the other can receive a clock from the first, and use it for clocking its receiver logic. To understand what I am talking about, configure an ALTGX transmitter with one reference frequency (156.25MHz + something), and an ALTGX receiver with another frequency (156.25MHz - something), and simulate it using Modelsim. If you don't know how to use Modelsim, its time to learn :) Ask questions, and I'll try to help. Cheers, Dave

Thanks Dave very much for your time and very detailed explanation. Let me describe briefly my final application. I am going to build a 10Gbps Ethernet Passive Optical Network (EPON) system where one FPGA will play a role as a center office device (OLT) and several other FPGAs will be customer premises (ONU). The boards will interface SFP+ modules. The design will consist of a physical layer protocol (probably by using Altera 10GBASE-R IP core) and my own implementation of MAC protocol (probably by modifying Altera 10GbE MAC IP core). The MAC for OLT device is different from that for ONUs. Therefore, I am trying to have physical layer first. I studied the Altera XCVR PHY IP Core User Guide and XCVR Architecture in Stratix IV manual. Then I tested the provided On-chip XCVR debugging examples in harware (not yet in Modelsim). However, 10GBASE-R is provided by Altera without a similar example for testing in hardware, so I tried to create that in Qsys with Avalon ultilities. With some knowledge from reading specs and Qsys, I though/hoped that I would create a complete 10GBASE-R design, then simulate it in Modelsim as well as test it on harware. I hoped that this top-down approach would help me understand the overview of my design more quickly. Moreover, as the PHY layer is provided as IP core, I do not really want to spend much time for this. I just want to know how to test this in hardware and know how to interface this with the other components in my final design. The major part of my project is to design the customized MAC sublayer. That is why I am doing things in reverse. I don't know if I am right when choosing this approach. Please give me some advice or/and suggest me better way(s) to reach my target application. For sure, to have a better understanding, I will learn to designs by configuring the ALTGX, RECONFIG,...like you recommended and learn to simulate in Modelsim. Also, I will learn to work with the SignalTap II and synthesizer soon. Again, thank you very much and look forward to your further advice.

--- Quote Start --- I am going to build a 10Gbps Ethernet Passive Optical Network (EPON) system where one FPGA will play a role as a center office device (OLT) and several other FPGAs will be customer premises (ONU). The boards will interface SFP+ modules. The design will consist of a physical layer protocol (probably by using Altera 10GBASE-R IP core) and my own implementation of MAC protocol (probably by modifying Altera 10GbE MAC IP core). The MAC for OLT device is different from that for ONUs. --- Quote End --- Ok, thanks for the description. --- Quote Start --- Therefore, I am trying to have physical layer first. I studied the Altera XCVR PHY IP Core User Guide and XCVR Architecture in Stratix IV manual. Then I tested the provided On-chip XCVR debugging examples in harware (not yet in Modelsim). However, 10GBASE-R is provided by Altera without a similar example for testing in hardware, so I tried to create that in Qsys with Avalon ultilities. With some knowledge from reading specs and Qsys, I though/hoped that I would create a complete 10GBASE-R design, then simulate it in Modelsim as well as test it on harware. --- Quote End --- My recommendation would be to take the XCVR debug example, which works, and simulate it. That'll allow you to probe a working design. I assume this is the 10GBASE-R IP you are looking at: http://www.altera.com/products/ip/iup/ethernet/m-alt-10gbase-r-pcs.html Note that 64/66B encoding is not supported in the Stratix IV hard-IP PCS, so it gets implemented in the fabric. You should synthesize to see how much logic the PCS layer is using. Given that the Stratix IV GT might not be a good use of resources, have you considered using a GX device with an external PHY? --- Quote Start --- I hoped that this top-down approach would help me understand the overview of my design more quickly. --- Quote End --- It might, if you also know how to simulate Qsys and create custom components. However, if you're introducing lots of new concepts, then you might actually be making the design more complicated. --- Quote Start --- Moreover, as the PHY layer is provided as IP core, I do not really want to spend much time for this. I just want to know how to test this in hardware and know how to interface this with the other components in my final design. The major part of my project is to design the customized MAC sublayer. That is why I am doing things in reverse. --- Quote End --- What you really should be doing then is getting the PHY working in the simulator so that you can simulate while working on your custom logic. Cheers, Dave

Example designs for communicating two Altera boards

49 Replies

Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
Try 11.1sp1. The tutorial was tested under Windows XP and 7, Linux Centos 6.2 and Ubuntu 11.10. There were no problems with that version of Quartus.
--- Quote End ---

My current Quartus is 11.1 Build 173 11/01/2011 SJ Full Version. I just installed this several weeks ago. I think this is 11.1sp1, isn't it? The system is Windows Server 2008, if this is where the problem can come from?
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
No, that is 11.1. Once you've installed SP1, it'll change to something like:

Quartus 11.1 Build 216 11/23/2011 SJ Full Version

Cheers,
Dave
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
The external PHY is the chip on that HSMC board. If you look at the price of a GX FPGA plus the external PHY, you'll find that it is less than the price of a GT FPGA. However, the board layout will then need more chips, so you need to figure out what is the cost effective solution for your final design.
--- Quote End ---

Now I got the point, actually this answers my wonder before that why SIV GX board is much cheaper then the SIV GT Transceiver SI board.

--- Quote Start ---
The GT boards have 10Gbps transceivers, so they do not need the external PHY.
--- Quote End ---

So, the SFP+ optical module will connect directly to SMA connector? Sorry if this is a lazy question:(

--- Quote Start ---
The kit does have a 1000Mbit PHY, so that is about all you can use.

--- Quote End ---

Do you mean that data is transmitted from host PC to device via Ethernet PHY interface, then stored in on-chip memory/buffer before being sent out? If so, the real data rate is 1000Mbps as maximum, instead of 10Gbps?

--- Quote Start ---
The other option would be to build a board that interfaces to the FCI Airmax VS connectors, but you'd need to check the hardware design to see if the PCIe hard-IP was available on those transceivers. If it was, then you could build a x1 PCIe breakout cable, and then connect to the board using one of the adapters from OneStopSystems:
--- Quote End ---

I have checked and the PCIe hard IP is available on ST IV. I will learn this solution later. Can you provide some related material/tutorial.

Thanks!

Best,
PLMT.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---

So, the SFP+ optical module will connect directly to SMA connector? Sorry if this is a lazy question:(

--- Quote End ---

No. If you want to connect to an SFP+ module, then you need a SPF+ cage. Since the SI kit does not have it, you'll need another solution. For example, you can use a direct attach copper cable with an SMA breakout. This would allow you to create a copper connection to an SFP+ switch.

--- Quote Start ---

Do you mean that data is transmitted from host PC to device via Ethernet PHY interface, then stored in on-chip memory/buffer before being sent out? If so, the real data rate is 1000Mbps as maximum, instead of 10Gbps?

--- Quote End ---

Look at the board. It has an ethernet connector. You can use that to transfer data to the board. If you then want to send it via 10Gbps, sure, use an SMA connector to send it somewhere else.

--- Quote Start ---

I have checked and the PCIe hard IP is available on ST IV. I will learn this solution later. Can you provide some related material/tutorial.

--- Quote End ---

I know the IP is available. That was not what I told you to look at. If you want to implement a x1 PCIe cable to your SI kit, you have to find the transceivers that exist on the board *and* can be used to implement PCIe using the hard IP block. Those transceivers might be on SMA connectors, or they might be on the Airmax VS connectors, or they might not be available at all. That is what you have to figure out!

Cheers,
Dave
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
No, that is 11.1. Once you've installed SP1, it'll change to something like:

Quartus 11.1 Build 216 11/23/2011 SJ Full Version

Cheers,
Dave
--- Quote End ---

I have installed Q II 11.1 SP1, exactly the Build 216 11/23/2011 SJ Full Version. Unfortunately, no change was made in the process of generating any designs that include a On-Chip Memory IP core. The latest one I tried was the JTAG-to-Avalon-MM tutorial you suggested. Hence, I attach here so that you can check whether the issue is coming from the design itself or it is not possible to use On-chip memory cores in Qsys/SOPC Builder in my system (Windows Server 2008).

Thank you very much.
qsys.zip107 KB
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
For example, you can use a direct attach copper cable with an SMA breakout. This would allow you to create a copper connection to an SFP+ switch.
--- Quote End ---

This is clear for me. Now, I can imagine how to to connect to an SFP+ module.

--- Quote Start ---
Look at the board. It has an ethernet connector. You can use that to transfer data to the board. If you then want to send it via 10Gbps, sure, use an SMA connector to send it somewhere else.
--- Quote End ---

My point was that if I want a throughput higher than 1000Mbps, I think that I have to transfer data to device using Ethernet interface and store it somewhere before sending it out. Because without storing data on board, how can I have like 10Gbps with input data rate to board is no greater than 1000Mbps?

--- Quote Start ---
If you want to implement a x1 PCIe cable to your SI kit, you have to find the transceivers that exist on the board *and* can be used to implement PCIe using the hard IP block.

--- Quote End ---

I will figure out this later and return to discuss if I face any issue.

Thank you very much.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---

My point was that if I want a throughput higher than 1000Mbps, I think that I have to transfer data to device using Ethernet interface and store it somewhere before sending it out. Because without storing data on board, how can I have like 10Gbps with input data rate to board is no greater than 1000Mbps?

--- Quote End ---

Now you understand the problem with this kit. The Signal Integrity kit is useful for looking at Signal Integrity, and that is about all. Because it does not have 10Gbps connectors, it is not the appropriate kit to try and develop 10Gbps applications.

However, now that you have purchased the kit, you have to figure out what tests you can perform.

If the board has two transmitters and two receivers on the SMA connectors, then you could use two SMA-to-SPF+ adapters. You could then connect two SFP+ cables to a desktop 10Gbps SFP+ card or to two ports on a 10Gbps switch. That way you can have 10Gbps continuous through the link.

The alternative is to use the 1Gbps interface to fill a buffer in the FPGA, or several buffers, and then send the data over 10Gbps. To maximize bandwidth, you could just send the same data 10x.

Cheers,
Dave
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
I have installed Q II 11.1 SP1, exactly the Build 216 11/23/2011 SJ Full Version. Unfortunately, no change was made in the process of generating any designs that include a On-Chip Memory IP core. The latest one I tried was the JTAG-to-Avalon-MM tutorial you suggested. Hence, I attach here so that you can check whether the issue is coming from the design itself or it is not possible to use On-chip memory cores in Qsys/SOPC Builder in my system (Windows Server 2008).

--- Quote End ---
Here's what I did:

1) Unzip your design

2) Opened the Qsys design and generated the system

3) Clicked on the files tab in the main GUI, and then clicked on the qsys_system.qsys and set it as the top-level entity (as described in the tutorial).

4) Synthesized the design.

There were no errors.

What was the problem you saw?

If you think its a problem with Windows Server 2008, download VirtualBox, install Windows or Linux into that, and then install the Quartus tool there.

Note that Windows Server 2008 is not a supported OS:

http://www.altera.com/download/os-support/oss-index.html

If you're serious about FPGA design, then you should install a supported OS.

Cheers,
Dave
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---

What was the problem you saw?
--- Quote End ---

You can see the problem I have during the process of generating HDL files for the Qsys system in the attached file. The generation hangs for ever with the last msg as "Info: Starting classic module elaboration."

--- Quote Start ---
If you think its a problem with Windows Server 2008, download VirtualBox, install Windows or Linux into that, and then install the Quartus tool there.
--- Quote End ---

I tried Virtual Machine before, but there is an issue with licensing as Altera does not support the virtual NIC address. Do you know if the license works with Quartus installed in a VirtualBox?.

--- Quote Start ---
Note that Windows Server 2008 is not a supported OS:
If you're serious about FPGA design, then you should install a supported OS.
--- Quote End ---

I have thought of this option before, but I need to confirm that the problem comes from the OS first. The servers are not my personal PCs so reinstalling would be a second choice.

Thank you.
qsys_generation_error.zip1 KB
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
14 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
You can see the problem I have during the process of generating HDL files for the Qsys system in the attached file. The generation hangs for ever with the last msg as "Info: Starting classic module elaboration."

--- Quote End ---
I've attached the output from Qsys under Windows XP. Its fine.

It looks like your script output stops right around the time Java is started. Perhaps Java on Windows Server 2008 is broken.

--- Quote Start ---

I have thought of this option before, but I need to confirm that the problem comes from the OS first. The servers are not my personal PCs so reinstalling would be a second choice.

--- Quote End ---
You have paid for a full-subscription license for Quartus. Your bosses or sysadmins need to appreciate that the software needs to be installed in a supported OS. You will not get any response to requests for support until you are using a supported OS.

Cheers,
Dave
qsys_generation_ok.txt12 KB

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Example designs for communicating two Altera boards

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