I've got a Terasic Cyclone V GX development board. I removed the EPCQ256 configuration device and am testing two other alternatives (Macronix MX25L257 and Cypress S25FL128). I created a simple project with some LEDs and am using JTAG indirect programming to program the devices (jic file). In both cases Quartus will program the devices and verify without error, but in neither case will the FPGA configure properly at power up (active serial). nCONFIG = 3.3V CONFIG_DONE = 0V nSTATUS = 2V (?) Any thoughts?

I can confirm the Winbond W25Q128JVPIQ works fine. I gave up on Cypress. We're using the WSON 6x5 package that is a fraction of the size and cost of the Altera FLASH. Some details: 1) You need Quartus 17.1 2) You must use the IQ version of the Winbond, the IM version will not work. The IQ version defaults to Quad SPI mode. 3) The board layout and schematics are shown in the attached images. We set MSEL to "10011". 4) No changes to the quartus.ini are needed. 5) It acts exactly as a EPCQ128A. 6) The "Altera ASMI Parallel" IP works great to treat the parts of the FLASH not used for configuration as user FLASH. 7) You do NOT need to instantiate the serial flash loader in your design. It is automatically loaded by the programmer. From Cyclone V Datasheet: https://www.alteraforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15081 Set "Settings -> Device/Boars ... -> Device and Pin Options ..." https://www.alteraforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15082 Via File -> Convert Programming Files ... https://www.alteraforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15083 After loading the .jic fine in the programmer: https://www.alteraforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=15084

You may refer to the Cyclone V Pin Connection Guidelines https://www.altera.com/en_us/pdfs/literature/dp/cyclone-v/pcg-01014.pdf the nCONFIG, CONF_DONE, nSTATUS should be connected to VCCPGM through an external10-kohm pull up resistor. The VCCPGM can be either 1.8V, 2.5V, 3.0V, or 3.3V.

Thanks for the reply. I'm confident he board I'm working with is wired correctly with respect to VCCPGM since; 1) It is a commercially available board from Terasic. 2) The FPGA configures correctly when an EPCQ256 configuration device is used. My question is why doesn't the FPGA configure correctly with the alternate configuration devices I experimented with, especially since they seem to program and verify without error.

This can be very problematic when you replace the flash to other models, voltage provided by different flash have different properties such as longer width and length of transistor require higher voltage theoretically to bypass the threshold(pinch-off). Especially active serial, active means your fpga is master, that you need more voltage to push longer bits to destination/slave if your slave isn't really passive device, this is the physics behind. The cyclone V itself have max voltage of 3.9V, with 3.3V is from EPCQ256 itself and 2.5V simply won't run that EPCQ256 as well when serial. For parallel, yes, around equal or greater than 2.5V you can use already. What you can play with is the voltage increment since you are very confident no wrong connection, overclocking should only shorten you device only if you turn on for a very long time which you can feel the temperature when touch or put thermometer on it. So, expecting you do it quick with overclocking to define whether this is the problem or not. Else, you may spend time comparing both flash datasheets. Are you running it on R&D since you want to replace other model to original model? Best Regards, Tzi Khang, Lim (This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation)

Basically, your nconfig and config_done are at correct voltage. But nstatus is wrong which need at least 3v and above while you getting 2v only. OK, let's say you really use external voltage source to make it 3v and fix the problem because transistor different width and different doping of npn junction. So, you can guess your R&D project already success powering up the fpga. No, story didn't end here because you connect it to load application, which I think only simple load like LED will success!!! You still need go through factors that high chance maybe the timing rise and fall issue leading or delay, 5ns could result a failure if you replace that LED with camera/image processing module, vsync everything failed and you will spend months troubleshoot it. Best Regards, Tzi Khang, Lim (This message was posted on behalf of Intel Corporation)

Cyclone V Configuration Devices | Altera Community

40 Replies

Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
I assume he meant we should use ECPQXXX of the same size as the Winbond chip. It's not clear why we needed 17.1. Perhaps it generates a slightly different programming file. I'll ask him.

I had trouble downloading 17.1 as well but it finally worked albeit slowly. Probably too many people doing at once for a new rev.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
It's not clear why we needed 17.1. Perhaps it generates a slightly different programming file. I'll ask him.

--- Quote End ---

I notice 17.1 has an ECPQ128 and an ECPQ128A option. I don't recall if 17.0 and earlier had the "A" version, but maybe that's what is different.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
Apparently 17.1 is the first version supporting the new EPCQA family. The Winbond 128 and 256 Mbit devices seem to be compatible with respective EPCQA chips. It might be that they are also recognized as EPCQ but I didn't yet check.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
Confirmed, Winbond W25Q128JV works as a EPCQ128A when using Quartus 17.1.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
Confirmed, Winbond W25Q128JV works as a EPCQ128A when using Quartus 17.1.
--- Quote End ---

ilkkak,

That's a relief to hear. Just to be sure I understand, your board boots now? We're making a board with the exact same Winbond chip (W25Q128JV except smaller WSON 6x5 mm package) in Active Serial x1 mode and it would be nice to know if it will work. We were going to have to switch to a different FPGA vendor if we could not find a FLASH solution.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
If this really works, as corestar imagines, I'm thrilled as well.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
Yes, with the W25Q128JV it boots and works fine in all respects as far as I can tell with a day's testing. I'm using ASx1 too.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
--- Quote Start ---
Yes, with the W25Q128JV it boots and works fine in all respects as far as I can tell with a day's testing. I'm using ASx1 too.
--- Quote End ---

Thanks for the info. One less thing to worry about.

Hopefully, Intel will simplify this in the future, but this works for now. Seems like their own 3D XPoint memory would be an ideal solution to replace their SRAM based FPGA with something that combines the best of FLASH and SRAM based chips. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know for sure of course, but it seems like it is denser, cheaper and lower power than SRAM and would eliminate the need for external FLASH altogether.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
ilkkak,

We got our board with the W25Q128JV and I'm having trouble. Could you provide more details on how you got it working? I'm trying to follow AP370 but it is not very clear. We set MSEL to 10011 and the schematic is as per Fig 7-9 in the Cyclone V datasheet for "Single device As x1 Mode Configuration". CLKUSR is not connected.

I created a JIC file as per AN370, but after a while the config fails with an error that it can't recognize the silicon ID. Note, I can program the FPGA itself fine with the sof used to create the jic.

Do I have to create the Serial Flash Loader core in the design? AN370 seems to imply it will use a factory default.

https://alteraforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14755&stc=1
https://alteraforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14756&stc=1
https://alteraforum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14757&stc=1
multiple-attachments.zip501 KB
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
8 years ago
Hi corestar,
I have MSEL at 10010, but 10011 should be fine for ASx1, it's the same configuration but with a longer POR delay. CLKUSR is not connected. I don't think you need a Serial Flash Loader core if you don't specifically want to make your own flash loader. In Conversion Setup I have the start address of SOF data set to 0x0, and "Disable EPCS/EPCQ ID check" is enabled in the Advanced Options. Otherwise the conversion setup is the same as yours.

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Cyclone V Configuration Devices

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