One of the changes in Quartus 10.0 is the missing of the internal simulator. As some people here wanted a poll: Here we go... BTW: I have started a similar poll regarding the lpm-functions in the MegaWizard PlugIn-Manager at: http://www.alteraforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24291 (http://www.alteraforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24291)

i'd be interested to know whether the bigger loss is the ability to draw test benches, or the actual simulator itself

It surely is the ease of waveform editing that we want back. How the simulator does it is anyway beyond us. I imagine Altera could have kept the waveform editor/viewer, generate a testbench from that, run any simulator in the background, read the results and display it. I guess this is what our friends with Xilinx do?

I understand that the old simulation environment was easier for teaching purposes. You start with something 'simple' and don't need to explain test bench during the first lesson. Unfortunately simple in this case can also mean unsafe. The students need to understand, from the beginning, that spending some time to set a propoer simulation environment (test bench) is at lease as important as designing the circuit. Using a proper simulation environment prevents from taking bad designing habits that are difficult to remove.

--- Quote Start --- I understand that the old simulation environment was easier for teaching purposes. You start with something 'simple' and don't need to explain test bench during the first lesson. Unfortunately simple in this case can also mean unsafe. --- Quote End --- Only a testbench where the output of the simulation is also checked by the testbench's VHDL code could be called safe. The other case, where the designer 'visually' checks the result of the testbench simulation, is not any safer than the waveform stimulated one. I guess that most testbenches fall in the unsafe category (the checking ones are a lot of work ...), why not make life easy by using a wave editor to create the stimuli and peruse the results? --- Quote Start --- Using a proper simulation environment prevents from taking bad designing habits that are difficult to remove. --- Quote End --- One could rather say that there are no 'bad' design habits, just 'less' or 'more' efficient ones.

I welcome any reducion of the number of tools we use and focus on the most practical ones. In particular the mini simulators of altera or xilinx are useless. They may help quick debug of code but are no good for proper testing in an industrial environment. For example, tests like DSP functions or entire systems, one needs reading/writing to files, speed of simulation, visual conversion to analogue. Forcing values during run time ...etc. I favor automated result but visual reading is equally important at least in the initial stages before automation. How on earth can you test say carrier tracking in a QAM receiver trying to lock to incoming signal ! I certainly needed to eyeball how the feedback error was converging...or not by looking at its analogue display. Or look at the input and output for derotation of the constellations with help of Matlab reading Modelsim output files. There are endless examples like that.

Poll: Do you want the internal simulator back?

58 Replies

Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
13 years ago
Thank you very much. I will bite the bullet
Dave
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
12 years ago
Its back!! Check out Version13
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
12 years ago
Where do you see it in version 13?
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
12 years ago
I show you how to access it in my WebCast at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8jakkhxlqi&list=pl7bdc4877ac756557&index=7 . Good luck, It works great! Bill
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
12 years ago
Thanks for that webcast. I'm glad to see the simulator really is back.
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
12 years ago
Actually it is not the 'old' simulator ... only the waveform editor/viewer. Underneath the simulation is executed by ModelSim.
I did a quick test and simulated the design by Prof. Kleitz. But it looks to me that you can only enter 'top level' pins?
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
12 years ago
Actually it is not the 'old' simulator ... only the waveform editor/viewer. Underneath the simulation is executed by ModelSim.
I did a quick test and simulated the design by Prof. Kleitz. But it looks to me that you can only enter 'top level' pins?
Altera_Forum
Honored Contributor
12 years ago
The default setting to use ModelSim to run the simulation didn’t work on my machine. It appears to bring up a command line window with some information, but it automatically closes before I’m able to read why it fails. To get results, I’m actually using the Quartus II Simulator. In the Simulation Waveform Editor I had to go Simulation > Options > Simulator: Quartus II Simulator.

I only tried top level pins, because that’s all I ever used back in day (Quartus II 9.0).

Timing simulations don’t work for me for Cyclone IV parts (only III and earlier), but that isn't too surprising.

Forum Discussion

Poll: Do you want the internal simulator back?

58 Replies

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