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Altera_Forum
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11 years ago

Beginner needs help with ISP of MAX7000

Hi, I am trying to rescue an old Fluke DSP-4000 network tester setup. The seller said everything was operational but you can guess that was wrong. It consists of a main unit and a remote unit which are identical except for the front panels. The remote unit would not start up at all and by swapping boards I determined the digital board of the remote unit was the problem. I actually found a replacement board and now both units work. The problem is that the Altera MAX7000 EPM7032V eeproms on both boards now have main unit firmware and so won't communicate as they should. I have the correct firmware files but Linkware 6.2 refuses to flash the remote unit with remote firmware as it recognizes it as a main unit due the existing firmware.

I am only a dabbler in this kind of stuff but it occurred to me that I could flash the eeprom directly to get around this. The problem is I don't really want to risk trying to unsolder this 44-pin device and the data sheet for this chip does not list the 7032V as being in-service programmable. I can find a way to make the necessary connections to a programmer from the chip but I don't know why it can't be programmed in place. Can anyone tell me the reason why it can't be ISP'd? What are the chances that attempting this with just the board on the bench would be successful anyway?

I am open to any helpful ideas or comments and thank you in advance.

Rob

8 Replies

  • Altera_Forum's avatar
    Altera_Forum
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    11 years ago

    The MAX7000 should be either 7000, 7000E or 7000S devices, I did not find reference to 7032V yet. Nevertheless, if you do not have a 7032S installed, the device is not in System programmable, even if you would have a "S" device I doubt the ISP interface is included on your board.

  • Altera_Forum's avatar
    Altera_Forum
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    11 years ago

    Thanks for the reply. If you check the Altera knowledge base you will find more than one reference to the EPM7032V as well as in the MAX 7000 family data sheet. I realize that there is no JTAG header on my board but it wouldn't be hard to make the few connections needed. At this point I think a socket can be placed upside-down over it to allow connections to be made. I guess I am most curious why they say it can't be programmed in place on a disconnected, unpowered board. Does anyone know why that would be?

    Rob
  • Altera_Forum's avatar
    Altera_Forum
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    11 years ago

    Ok - the EPM7032V is replaced since mid 2000 by the EPM7032AE that includes JTAG I/F for in circuit programmability. Assuming it is a 1:1 replacement, the EPM7032V might/should have the JTAG I/F as well. Regarding the staement you mentioned regarding "unpowered board" - well, the JTAG I/F includes the Signal lines to program and check the device, no power lines. Therefore the device needs to be powered by the board's power supply (connect the board to the System) or you connect a separate power supply to VCC circuit during programming :-)

  • Altera_Forum's avatar
    Altera_Forum
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    11 years ago

    The EPM7032V does not support JTAG. Yes, the MAX7000AE series does but as a successor series it has JTAG as an additional feature - along with higher performance, smaller process, cheaper etc...

    See here (http://edg.uchicago.edu/cdf/level1/l1aux/doc/parts/m7000.pdf) for some more information on your device.

    As for reprogramming it - I like your thinking. However, whilst it may well be un-powered in situ on your board, the circuitry around it will put a 'load' on it's I/O once whatever is programming it provides power to it. It may still work...

    I'd suggest you can, as I have in the past, remove the part relatively easily with a heat gun. In it's place, assuming there is space, put the socket you mentioned.

    Then the only challenge remaining is to find some programming hardware to program it. See page 73 of the datasheet above for a short list of pretty old (obsolete and hard to come by) options.

    Good luck!

    Cheers,

    Alex
  • Altera_Forum's avatar
    Altera_Forum
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    11 years ago

    I appreciate your taking the time to share your wisdom on this. I have only limited background in electronics so I am struggling somewhat. I see that you are correct that the 7032V simply does not have the JPEG capability even off of the board. I looked at the 7032AE data sheet and while it shares the same pinouts as mine and can operate at 3.3 volts, pin 3 on the EPM7032V J-lead package that I have is a dedicated power-down function as seen on page 78 of the link you provided above. On the non-V chips it is just listed as Vcc. This chip is in an old Fluke ESP-4000 hand-held network tester and I am guessing that the power-down function is used. Can you predict what the effect of asserting that pin low on the 7032AE chip would be? Just to show the extent of my ignorance, there are 4 pins labeled Vcc, are all required to be powered or are any of them in common? If in common, could pin 3 simply be left unconnected? I welcome help from anyone, thanks.

    Rob
  • Altera_Forum's avatar
    Altera_Forum
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    11 years ago

    I think there are a few too many uncertainties here to be able to reassure you that it'll just work...

    Yes, you can clearly drive pin 3 on the AE part to 3.3V. The first discussion is whether the AE part needs 3.3V on that VCC pin. Different devices distribute power to the fabric in different ways and many devices rely on power being applied to all power pins for correct operation. Remove power from one pin and bits of the device can stop working. I'm not saying that's the case with this device - I strongly suspect it isn't.

    If the four power pins are directly connected to each other internally then, clearly, the device won't need 3.3V sourced to pin 3.

    However, if that's the case, and your analyser does try assert PDn and place the part in sleep mode, then we're clearly heading for a problem. If the source impedance of that PDn signal is high, you'll be fine. If it's low then you're going to end up with a direct short, through the AE part, from power to ground (via the source of the PDn signal). Not so good.

    If you're really keen you could explore the source impedance of that signal and measure it. If you're happy that it's high enough then, even if the AE part is 'sourcing' 3.3V onto pin 3 (by virtue of a common power rail inside the device), and PDn is asserted low, then everything could continue to work, albeit without any power saving. On the contrary, we'll actually be burning more power, the power dissipated through the PDn driver circuit.

    However, measuring it's source impedance will rely on you being able to exercise the PDn signal - and you don't know if the you network tester even uses it.

    I look forward to your next instalment...

    Cheers,

    Alex
  • Altera_Forum's avatar
    Altera_Forum
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    11 years ago

    Hi,

    referring to the Power Down Pin3... If this is used in the current design to minimize power consumption, the Pin is connected to GND to shut the device down. If you replace the 7032V by a 7032AE having a "normal" VCC Pin at this Location, the might end in a short circuit condition on VCC if the device has internal interconnect of all VCC Pins or at least the part of the 7032AE being powered by this pin will be unpowered, the I/O unconnected. For the 7032V the Pins would remain in the latched state, this is different behaviour.

    Thus you should - IMHO - not solder the 7032AE Pin3 to the board but with a hardwire to next VCC pin to ensure the power being routed correctly. This should normally just increase the power consumption by eliminating the power down Option to save power...
  • Altera_Forum's avatar
    Altera_Forum
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    11 years ago

    Problem solved. I reached out to some Fluke service centers worldwide and a kind tech told me how to put LinkWare into debug mode. Then when I went to load the "wrong" firmware into the remote unit it uploaded it without any fuss and now the units see each other as they should. Now during self-test I get error 108 because the new board needs to be calibrated. It's always something, right?

    Rob